No. Fact is, there is no clear line you can draw between alliances that are subs and alliances that are not. Would an alliance be a sub if they just retagged? Would an alliance be considered a sub, if they hand over relics to their ally at the end of the round helping them win? Or would a full round ally be considered a sub? There is no way you can differentiate. SYN never recruited any of these so called Subs. They were just there when we built, and they asked for protection and retagged of their own free will.



Factual information is that the Elements are controlled by WIND (in this round), and they are indeed considered subs of WIND by SYN. Why would WIND negotiate an NAP for them, with the same terms if they weren't? Unlike SYN its the Elements that are controlled by a few individuals. Infact I dont think gipsy even talks to the subs that much.



Everything we say is not trolling and taunting you. Its facts. Read Jokers message again, he himself has talked about having sub farms.



Lampar and I had a chat. I saw that he was active, new to the game and was eager to learn. He was in 11, we were marked hostile to them, and he was infact conquered by WIND. Not by us. I asked him if he would want to join ROCK, since 11 at that time had only 1 good player - 11 himself, and the alliance had broken up. Lampar agreed and moved to Rock of his own free will. There is no question of using our conquers to work for us here. Infact Michael did that, and it is considered farming, and he got banned. None of us break rules and we play straight like I have said many times before.



Have to agree

lol WIND is not the one working with sub farms. I am lol. I been doing this for so long its crazy. I go by the rules of the game and the admins know it. I only work with Admin Andrew because to me he is the best. As long as a conquered colony plays in the round no one can be banned. Another thing im doing that most of you dont know is teaching these players how to play. Im telling them all the stuff i wish i would have known a very long time ago. Heck i didn't even do this back when i was playing in the old server. I believe that if some one does something for you then you should do something for them.

The sub farms are apart of me and me alone. I help the other elements by taking in there conquers and teaching them. You all would not believe the players and friends i found in my sub farms over the years. Iv met some of the best players i had by them joining the sub farms. I always stick to my word and set them free when they meet the requirements. They have teams marked red because they want too and they can do there own tactics also. The sub farms can not be banned because they attacked you. This is apart of the game.

If they attack you its just them playing in the round like they should be doing in the first place so they dont get banned. I dont have to tell them to attack you lol. This about the sub farms is nothing compared to what is to come lol. And its not braking the rules of the game ether lol.

PS. Want to hear some real hot headed thing? I know what your sub leaderS say lol.

O and i will not be a regular here ether. I like to play more then talk. I do all my talking in the game lol.

Sure, its not like we cant defend those attacks. We aren't here crying for a mass ban or something. That was posted only to show that the elements who say we broke the NAP or whatever, are actually using underhanded tactics to attack us or cause our downfall. That isn't respectable. Sure maybe you cant be banned, but that is just a technicality or rather a loophole that you are using.

And, yeah this sub farm is nothing. You dont have any idea of what is to come
And good that you know what our sub leaders say

Joker, I know that you do this sub farms since long. I am new but not that new. I just wonder if you say to RAIN that they should take their crystals with 1 inf armor as you said to me long time ago (under another name)
Its more a grey zone of BD and thats the only reason why you won't get banned for it.
Still - its just poor
You guys call yourself the "Elements"
Thats ( as i know) earth, wind, fire, water, ice, thunder, rain, the 11th element + subfarms like BoM, FGTS ,.....,......,..... and you need to use multis too?
Are you serious that afraid?
I don't know if we can win after the NAP is gone. Its will be a hard job for SYN + 2 (!) subs. All I can say is that we will try

We started this world as a fun era as MW and later IAN. Just the hilarious behavior of the elements led me to the decision to retag to SYN. I am pretty aware that with this constellation we may can't win.

The SYN spirit is to fight straight and so we will do.

PS. Joker don't send mails like this to people which I'll mentor on another server.
If you want to help people, apply to become a BD mentor. I don't get and don't want that they spam or attack you. Just a "thank you" is my salery

Lol afraid? More like 'come can get it'

Yeah like I said we aren't crying about your tactics or whatever. But lets see who wins. It may have worked for you for 6 years. But it may not work for you this time . We will also do what it takes to win, but we will always play straight. We wont create sub farms whatever. And as for you being 1 step ahead of us only time will tell.

wears his flame retardant gear and puts his anti-trolling charm around his neck





okay this is a direct attack from gaurav insulting WINDs public reputation claiming WIND use sub farms. this is exactly what im talking about when i mention "taunting and trolling". just pointing this out here.



there is a clear way you can differentiate this. a sub is someone who follows the leadership, wishes and commands of a more powerful "flagship" alliance, usually staffed with players that are not as active but wish to contribute something to their collective "team". im sure anyone reading the forums does not need a definition of that.

your argument is rather focused on whether or not the many different alliances that consist of the IAN/SYN collective are subs or independently operated and led alliances.

you then go on to add (and insist) that WIND is leading the elemental collective alliances as factual knowledge when they are indeed not. sometimes they (element alliances) have competing agendas, seperate friend/foe lists that conflict with each other, miscommunication and in-fighting ect. we mostly cooperate to work twords a common goal or aim - which is why we exist. flagship alliances and subs work similar except no elemental alliance directly obeys one individual as you seem to believe. i use "subs" in regards to the term SYN/IAN uses for their helper alliances because that is the term they have indeed adopted and use frequently. every time another element is called a "sub" of WIND i am the first to correct them and educate them on how we operate differently - again as a alliance of separate alliances. pretty similar to what you just eluded was the case of SYN/IAN and its "helpers".

to reiterate you (mfreak) goes on to insist that WIND is leading everyone without any fact or proof to back this up, just empty speculation and suspicion despite my attempts to educate non-elemental colonies otherwise. you are arguing for the sake of arguing and taking an opposing stance in a attempt to what, cause dissent and conflict on public forums so others will lose control of their tempers?

again i refer to "flaming and trolling".



i never said everything you say is trolling and taunting, and i have just pointed out the parts that i believe are or can be considered as such.

you just answered the second part yourself here. WIND does not use sub farms to my knowledge (i know i do not). you are quoting Joker who is not WIND - so your accusation that WIND does (specifically named and targeted here) is false and unsupported by Jokers quote. take your issue up with him and his alliance and do not bash our name and reputation in the public spotlight just because you want to smear us for holding 2 relics.



again i will quote gaurav1 below who has named WIND specifically. thank you gipsy for being more open minded and informed about the situation than your associates for mentioning not all elemental alliances (and colonies) play this way.



the topic is elements but the insults accusations and trolling are mostly targeted (by name) twords WIND. how is it fair to treat us all as 1 when we just established earlier in this post that we are an alliance of alliances. anyone i have singled out as trolling or flaming i have done so by naming that individual or quoting them directly. im not going to say all of SYN says this or that, or plays like this or that when i have pointed out earlier in this post all the elements are grouped together and responsible for each others actions - or specific single alliances are named responsible for other allied alliances actions. this is wrong, insulting, inflammatory statements meant to do nothing more than cause hostility. trolling.



id like to point out gipsy acknowledges THDR as a element in this post. WIND has recently come to defend THDR outposts to keep them from the opposing clutches of SYN alliance forces.

the elements have kept the spirit of the NAP alive despite SYN/IAN spamming the "protected" elemental continent and therefore keeping outposts there - against the NAP. SYN forces had attacked WATR outposts in retaliation for one WATR member killing SYN units. now SYN forces attacked THDR outposts but insist they have not broken the NAP.

the elements and SYN alliances both have random rogue colonies (NOT ALLIANCES) breaking the NAP but SYN insists on punishing whole alliances at a time and calling all elemental alliances or other elemental alliances responsible for the attacks.

the reality is both have problem colonies - not problem alliances. lets stop the specific targeting of individual players or alliances for violation of the NAP and punishing the entire opposition for it, or justifying a retaliation against the whole in similar fashion.

we can act like mature opponents here, and stop the hostile harassment insults and blatant accusations and lies. yes the trolling and insulting is going on here, and there are rules to keep such inflammatory remarks out of the public broadcast in game and most likely here in the forums as well.

i would expect trolls and intentionally flaming posters on BOTH sides of the SYN/elemental conflict be punished equally just as they would be treated as if they were caught cheating. friend or foe alike.

i want to believe we are mostly keeping the spirit of the NAP alive but it appears as though some are taking every opportunity to justify their actions to do whatever they wish. technically the NAP between IAN and the elements dissolved and no longer exists when IAN changed their name to SYN - but i do not believe anyone wishes to play that card from the deck. were all here to have a good time so lets kill each other and blow each other up to tiny pieces in game, but keep the personal attacks and insults out of the public spotlight.

i have made some good friends and enemies in this game and im having fun with that. that was the spirit and intention of a competitive game like battledawn in the first place right? fun and entertainment? id love to see the forums enforced to try to maintain it as such.

I am not gonna quote everything you wrote, since its too long. But I definitely took the time to read it and here is my reply:

1. Your definition of what a sub is , or what allies are, is entirely YOUR opinion. In reality there is no clear distinction or line that can be drawn between what you call allies or subs. You tend to be very defensive when it comes to who is a sub and who is not, even going on to say its just SYN that has subs and WIND does not. Sure SYN has subs, but they weren't recruited. On the other hand, the elements were all put together by warring alliances last era, and according to punto, Fire would win last era, and Wind would win this one. So I consider subs or allies that help another alliance win as the same, whether they use the main alliance's tag or not.

2. Since you yourself, said that the element is an alliance of alliances, any act done by any of the element alliances or colonies will be considered as one. That is why we accused WIND (or the Elements as you choose to call it) of sub farming. I dont really need any proof to say that WIND is infact leading all other element alliances, since the NAP terms for all element alliances (at the time it was made, not including Thunder), was negotiated by WIND.

3. You must be extremely naive to think, that I am worried about sub farms, or am jealous of your 2 relics (Hey we have 4 ), or I take great pleasure in tarnishing WIND's image. I have played with WIND members before, and I know who cheats, who does not. I wont go on to accuse every WIND member, I do know there are some honorable ones in there. I also know there are some members of yours that will use any underhanded tactic to get what they want. You can tell, from the ban hammer that you guys suffered recently. Don't even take my case that I was banned for sometime, it was only because I swore at a multi, who spammed our relocation outposts, which is again an underhanded tactic, that really gets on my nerves. Sure maybe I should have kept my mouth shut, but oh well, such are circumstances. And I have never lost control like that or been banned ever on BD for any violation including this one.

4. If you are so sensitive about "accusations", "insults" etc, then probably you should get your members to play an honorable game, and protect those honorable ones in your alliance who also suffer because of it, and protect that reputation of yours that you are so worried about. Infact its you who is trolling, but I am pretty used to all that, so I'll just go ahead and say - BRING IT!!

Yes even I have made some very good friends but no enemies ingame. Simply because myself and my teammates have the heart to fight till the end and never give up and we earn the respect of most of the enemies that we fight. Hope the elements will take a page out of our book and play honorably